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An unpopular opinion...

Krohe
I'll be brief--nothing is going to prevent horrific events like Columbine, Virginia Tech, or Sandy Hook. Nothing. Those intent upon great harm are going to commit great harm. Arming teachers, students, security guards; putting an officer in every school; over-taxing already thinly-stretched budgets to find money for all the bandaids now being offered in the wake of Sandy Hook. None of it is going to do a damn thing to prevent these mass tragedies.

I do believe that high capacity weapons should be banned. If you want to play with such toys, join the military. We cannot stop the mass harm, but we can take this too-easily attainable weapon out of the arsenal. The notion that, "if they don't have guns, they'll mix explosives with stuff they buy from CVS and a recipe from the internet." Very true--but it takes effort. Going into your mother's gun cabinet--to which you have full access--takes almost none.

And while I believe there needs to be some drastic mental-health care reforms in this country, I also don't see that as being a huge deterent. Part of the mental health problem is the reluctance to seek help. Short of going back to the system that allowed willy-nilly committing of people who either didn't fit in or wore out their usefulness, there will always be those who fall through the cracks, no matter how good our reforms are.

I don't know if it's human nature, or an American thing, this mad attempt to bandaid a situation that requires stitches and a splint. Let's ban all guns! Let's arm teachers! Let's put a security guard in every school, armed to the hilt with the best this great nation has to offer! Huzzah! I call bullshit. And that's the worst part, because though I cry bullshit, I have no answers. I hate the bandaid, but doing NOTHING isn't an answer either.

So what do we do?

And this is why, whenever I see anything about Newtown, I break down in tears, because I--who will find something positive in any negative to somehow lessen the horror of it--can't find a thing.

Comments

( 53 comments — Leave a comment )
cmcmck
Feb. 22nd, 2013 03:35 pm (UTC)
As you know, I live in a place with some of the strictest gun controls on the planet. It may not stop every shooting or every illegally held gun, but it sure as hell works most of the time!

The issue I think you have is with this whole Hollywoodesque black hat/white hat 'right to bear arms' culture which is still so prevelant chez vous.

It seems to be an odd admixture of macho, got to protect 'our' wimminz and zomg! terrorism!

Some of the answers are to be found in your 17th century history. (but I suppose that as a 17th century specialist historian, I would say that! :o)

A sea change in attitude won't be obtained easily, but it has to come and ceasing to pretend that the NRA represents anything sane would be a good start!

Edited at 2013-02-22 03:35 pm (UTC)
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 03:39 pm (UTC)
The NRA and the oil industry have way too much to say in this nations politics, policies--everything.

My biggest problem is and always has been this bandaid effect. So much policy in this country is in effect to placate, not to actually ammend. Your kid's being bullied in school? Enact a "no tolerance" policy. Huzzah! Great going, folks, except that no tolerance thing gets the kid who fights BACK expelled along with the little blotter who was bullying him to begin with.

cmcmck
Feb. 22nd, 2013 05:30 pm (UTC)
It's still very hard to persuade people that bullying goes on in schools and even when they can be brought to see that it does, that it isn't 'just a part of growing up'. As a victim of same, I can't be persuaded that it aided that process in my case.

At what point does the one time bully in school in the US then become the societal bully with a Kalashnikov or Ouzi who goes back to bully the whole school in a particularly lethal fashion?
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 05:53 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, the trend in this country is that it's those who were bullied going back to seek some twisted revenge.

The whole bullying thing in this country is getting attention because it's popular, I hate to say. I'm GLAD! Because people are actually taking it seriously now. I just find that when you're trying to protect the bully along with the bullied, you're really not making much headway.

Kids who are spanked learn that being bigger and stronger makes you either right, or above wrong. They learn that humiliation is how you get someone to behave the way you want them to. So is it any wonder when kids go to school that they use the same tactics on their peers?

It's such a huge, involved thing, this bullying. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? And round it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.
msstacy13
Feb. 22nd, 2013 04:47 pm (UTC)
Any idea how many kids died of polio in our parents' lifetimes?
Way more than have died in school shootings in our lifetimes.
Does that help at all?

I do think more stringent background checks
and better care for the mentally ill
would help a lot, but will we get either of those?
I dunno.
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 04:56 pm (UTC)
I could only wish for a vaccine to cure violence.

Yes and yes--I agree that both those things are necessary. I do think, eventually, we will get the better background checks. As far as better care for the mentally ill? I doubt it.
msstacy13
Feb. 22nd, 2013 05:21 pm (UTC)
And did you see the article about tetraethyl lead?
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 05:25 pm (UTC)
Nope.
msstacy13
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:00 pm (UTC)
"In states where consumption of leaded gasoline declined slowly, crime declined slowly. Where it declined quickly, crime declined quickly."

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

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wendigomountain
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:06 pm (UTC)
The stigma attached to mental health, and the costs associated with it are a HUGE factor. As being pro-gun myself, I have to say that those who are educated about firearms will have a working understanding of what harm they can do, and with that a reluctance to do them. It is people without empathy that turn guns onto others. If those who committed violence with guns had a basic understanding of fantasy vs. reality, it wouldn't be that easy to pull a trigger. As a person with anger issues my own self, I would NEVER turn a gun onto another human being unless they were threatening my life or the safety of my family and loved ones. Fire arms should be treated like martial arts, used only for defense. Those who actually have martial arts training know this, unless they are Cobra Kai guys, in which case, they will get owned by Pat Morita if they step out of line.

I think if parents were more engaged with their kids, we wouldn't have had Columbine. If mental health was not a joke in this country, we wouldn't have had Aurora or Sandy Hook. Or Killdozer. Or Lubys. Or University of Texas in the 1960's. But in a nation that increasingly shows empathy as weakness, it's not surprising. Anymore, it's nothing but me me me and that just creates a rich habitat for psychotic behavior.
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:12 pm (UTC)
I agree with almost everything you say. I am not anti-gun. I have guns in the house. I've had LOTS of guns in the house at different times. My son is a hunter, and a marksman. I still don't see the need for civies to have access to high-capacity weapons. Cool and fun just don't cut it when they're so easy to get.
wendigomountain
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:20 pm (UTC)
My only problem with not having access to high capacity, is regarding weapons that were built that way. It turns people into criminals just for owning something that came that way. Now 100 rounds is excessive, and a drum magazine is actually pretty retarded in my opinion as a shooter. 20? No, not really high capacity IMO. But more like the limit of what a normal person should want to carry. I think it depends on what people consider High Capacity. a 50-100 round magazine is just compensating for something...
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:23 pm (UTC)
But who needs something that's going to shoot off 20 rounds in a few seconds either? One doesn't become a criminal for owning one (if banned); they become a criminal for keeping it after it is. And, honestly, that's just stubbornness, IMO.
wendigomountain
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:37 pm (UTC)
In a perfect world, I would agree with you. But in a perfect world, I don't think the police should be better armed than those they are supposed to protect. But are never armed as well as those they are supposed to protect us against. History has shown us that the police can be mobilized from protectors to oppressors faster than you can say donuts and coffee. But it's not an ideal world. And if we can't count on people to be decent and honest most days (and cops and soldiers are still people) then there has always been a demand for the latitude to defend ones home and family. Then there is the demand for some to be a dipshit who can cut a tree in half with a gun seconds before they melt the barrel down from rapid fire. I think like anything from responsible drinking, to operating a motor vehicle, to owning a swimming pool, people who cannot control their firearms should not have them. But the issue is who gets to decide that? And based on what standards? When you boil it down, there are so many variables that would exclude people unfairly and allow others to still have what they shouldn't. It would eventually pan out to race, sex, religion, classism, economic standing, or other forms of specialized oppression. Our species doesn't have a great track record with that just yet.
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readthisandweep
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:10 pm (UTC)
I blame the Patriarchy.

No, honestly, I do. Like virtually every damn issue on the planet, the gun thing is down to a male mindset that reveres 'power over' above all else.

We won't stop gun violence, or bullying, or rape, or child abuse, or environmental degradation, or poverty, or WAR until we eradicate patriarchal values.

Which is why we need feminism. In my view.



bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:14 pm (UTC)
Baby, you're singing to the choir here!

It brings to mind something I read recently--a family who didn't want a female dog because they didn't want to worry about puppies or spaying. When asked if it wasn't the same problem with a male dog, the answer was no. The puppies weren't their problem, and they'd never "emasculate" their dog by altering his reproductive junk.

o_0

Yeah. The mindset's gotta go.

Edited at 2013-02-22 06:15 pm (UTC)
readthisandweep
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:31 pm (UTC)
Sadly, so long as the patriarchal press (which is all of it) retains so much power & is in everyone's face, I fear we have a long wait.

Everything is run by men. The judiciary, our education systems & medical professions; the pornography industry, the entertainment industries; the military & big business. All of them function by wielding inordinate amounts of power over others. Particularly women & girls.

More often than not this 'power over' is achieved by abdicating responsibility for any potential consequences from poverty & ignorance to pollution, abuse, illiteracy & death by war.

I reserve my biggest contempt for governments & the church.

The major influential powers are still those of the established patriarchal governments & churches. While church leaders of all faiths & creeds aspire to glory & salvation at the right hand of their respective gods, our politicians strive toward some odd notion of honour by setting themselves up as our saviours on earth.

How bloody dare they!
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:38 pm (UTC)
Like I said, baby--singing to the choir.

And truly, until Christianity loses its grip on this country, it's never going to change.
wendigomountain
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:44 pm (UTC)
At the risk of being argumentative, I have to say as a white male who has worked at a place that has yet to pay him a living wage for the last 12 years, every last one of my supervisors has been a female. They have been in a position to pay me better for the job I do, but continue to oppress me with the wages I am paid. They have been unsympathetic to taking time off for the birth of my 3 children, paid sick leave for when my stay-at-home wife is sick and needs me to take care of the kids, and have been instrumental in keeping me from making a lateral move from my office (for the last 6 years) by bad mouthing me to other departments.

I don't believe oppression is strictly limited to gender. Sorry.
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:46 pm (UTC)
You're right. It's not. You are, as in so many ways, my darling Clint, an exception to the unfortunate rule.

I do wonder, however, who is ABOVE those women making your life miserable.
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readthisandweep
Feb. 22nd, 2013 06:47 pm (UTC)
The fact that you feel the need to apologise tends to prove my point. We are ALL of us, men & women, at the mercy of the patriarchy. That is the tragedy.


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musingaloud
Feb. 22nd, 2013 09:26 pm (UTC)
I so agree. I don't like guns, but I don't believe outlawing them will stop the violence, because I am of the firm belief that the bad guys and those who want to do harm will still have them and get more if they want. I do believe the high capacity thingys should be controlled, though, for all the reasons you've said. I also think there should be background checks and a national registry, although, again, it won't make much difference for those who want to do harm, because they'll either have them legally anyway (as in Sandy Hook), or they'll just buy them on the black market, and god knows you cannot ever close down the black market.

I do think we need to find a happy medium, though, to commit to facilities those that do need some help for brain issues, and are resistant to committing themselves, or unable to afford the care. I agree that this was overused in the past, to the point of being criminal, but surely we can find a happy medium. And notice I say "brain" issues, because I HATE the term mental illness. Mental implies thinking, reasoning, and all the conditions now labeled "mental" are biological in nature. I think a big step in all this would be to outlaw the term mental illness. It implies, and the insurance companies perpetrate this by not paying, that people could just think themselves well if they were only mentally stable and strong enough. Horseshit. The chemicals and neurons in the brain are misfiring!

Ok I'll shut up now.
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 09:38 pm (UTC)
Never shut up. SPEAK! You make good points, valid points.

In a perfect world, we would not have to have laws protecting the "mentally ill" from being committed against their will, because loved ones and bribe-able healthcare providers wouldn't abuse the system by getting rid of an elderly parent no one wants to care for, a wife a man doesn't want any more, or a deaf child pegged as being "an idiot." (yes, that was once a "formal" term.)

It is a never-ending cycle that, honestly, I don't see being fixed. There will always be the problem caused by the solution, because one solution (the committment laws) causes new problems (mental illness being swept under the rug.)
musingaloud
Feb. 22nd, 2013 10:17 pm (UTC)
Mental health is one of those things (well, all the issues raised, really!) that are so frustrating, because in a perfect world, it shouldn't be a problem. Facilities would be able to cure brain disorders, people wouldn't go out and hurt others because they're hurting so badly themselves/are so full of hate, etc etc etc. But there is no perfect world, no perfect solution, and so we have to muddle along as best we can, trying to toe the center line, but always falling to one side or the other -- and sometimes both at the same time. So, I'm like you, so frustrated about all the issues, so saddened by both what's happened and what will happen, and my inability to effect a positive change in either direction. But I do agree that arming teachers and turning schools into lockdown prisons will not insulate our children from harm. There's always a way for evil to sneak in. Unfortunately.
bogwitch64
Feb. 22nd, 2013 10:19 pm (UTC)
I am reminded of my second life-motto:
I cannot control the actions of others, I can only control my reaction to them.

That's pretty much the size of it.
( 53 comments — Leave a comment )